[Home] [Fitters View Welcome] [Post] [Fitters View Archives]

All new posts will be reviewed before posting. This was needed to stop anyone from posting that should not have been on this site.

Subject: posts
From:    Herkimer Jones
Comments: Everyone must be working. I havent seen any new posts in awhile. It's a good thing to see.

Comment: I do not know how many members are aware of this. If you are unfortunate enough to have to retire due to a medical issue your monthly medical premium is $124.00monthly.Also if you secure employment ,and make more than $24k yearly your premium is raised another $85.00.Total monthly cost.$210.00.No dental, no eyeglasses. Retirees sure seem to be an easy target.

*******************************************************************************
Subject: Pension Facts
From:    My Point of View
Comments: Brother Skinner:  I am not sure what you mean by "put up or shut up" in this case.  I simply gave you an accurate factual answer to your question.  In regards to a raise?  No, I have not had a raise and I am a retiree.  I also know that my pension is based on the hours and years that I worked. I am not looking for a hand-out nor do I feel that I am getting screwed.  I do feel that I am fortunate to have relatively inexpensive health insurance and a decent pension.  I do not begrudge our union leaders what they get for they earn every penny of it representing us 7 days a week. What kind of pension and health insurance do the people get who worked non-union all of their careers?  We reap what we sow.  If a larger pension is what you wanted maybe you should have been more vocal during your working years to have more of your money put aside for a larger pension rather than on your check. My glass is half full, how about yours?

*******************************************************************************
Subject: Retirement
From:    JIM SKINNER
Comments: Point of view - What I am saying is that the union officials should be more accountable.  I did state things at meetings over my 30 years, unfortunately the Hall's click always seemed to set the pace.  There is a double standard, whether you are aware of it or not.  As I stated before, our pension is pitiful compared to other nearby locals.  The "I'm grateful for whatever I get" attitude of people like you is what keeps the officials going, they love you.  What are you going to say when they drink out of your glass again, and now it is only one quarter full??  How many pensions do the officers get compared to us?? 

*******************************************************************************
Subject: Retirees Benefits
From:    My Point of View
Comments: Brother Skinner: Comparing a working member's benefits with the officers is akin to comparing apples to oranges. Every member in good standing can run for one of these offices. Before one does they need to understand the tremendous liability and responsibility they will inherit if they do win. Salaries and benefits for local officers are set by union by-laws which, we vote on. Instead of comparing ourselves to union officers it would seem fair to compare ourselves with other retirees who worked non-union their whole careers to see what we have versus them. They have no pension, no health-care and no death benefit or burial benefit fund. Sure we could have it better but we could also have it one Hell of a lot worse! My union officers deserve everything they are getting and I can say that without sounding like a brown-nose because I want nothing from those people and I have no relatives in this union, therefore, I speak from the heart! By the way Brother Skinner, did you ever run for a full-time office in this local?

*******************************************************************************
Subject:
From:    JIM SKINNER
Comments: Why must we compare our check to a scabs. I think it  is fair to compare it to other local's many much smaller than ours. I'm saying there is a double standard and people with 2 incomes should not be in charge of my one income. If they were so pure why not make voting available to our retires that are sick or live out of state. What are they afraid of the results? Everyone should have the right to vote of you are a member in good standing. We have the technology.

*******************************************************************************
Subject: Another parting Gift
From:    Jim & Jim Skinner
Comments: Well fellow retires, another car as a parting gift was given away last night. This to a  officer that could pay cash for the car if he wanted to. Would it be TOO much to ask if they put our names in a hat and draw one for us every couple of years. I hear we are now over the 1 BILLION dollar mark. I will say that is good news, and thanks to the wise investing in these hard times. 13th check  HEY, HEY.

*******************************************************************************
Subject: Absentee Voting
From:    My Point of View
Comments: Brother Skinner:  The UA Constitution controls "absentee voting".  This is not a local issue.  There is a procedure in place which a local can petition the UA to have a mail-in vote is it meets the UA Constitution requirements.  As far as the local giving away a car, once again this is controlled by the membership.  The membership or the members of the Executive Board votes on this.  It goes back to plain old fashioned democracy. There have been a lot of things in the past that the membership and/or the Executive Board have voted to do that I was not in favor of but that does not make them wrong. As long as it is done above board and out in the open that's the way it goes. As I have stated before, if we had the chance to walk in the Bus Mgrs.'s shoes or any of our elected officials we may have a different point of view. Our union may not be perfect but it beats the Hell out of working "rat!

*******************************************************************************
Subject: retirees' widows' rights
From:    a concerned retiree's wife
Comments: I understand that a widow got half of her husband's retirement up until June of 2007 then if a retiree died after that, his widow got ALL of his retirement; doesn't it count that a widow should get ALL of his retirement until HER death no matter when he retired?  Not fair if you ask me.

*******************************************************************************
Subject: No new posts
From: formerly a spy from the hall
Comments: Haven't seen any new posts for a long time. Bill are you still managing this website? I guess everyone must be working...cause all is quiet.

*******************************************************************************
Subject:
From: Herkimer Jones
Comments: Happy New Year!!!!!!!

*******************************************************************************
Subject: Contract
From:    Bill Erffmeyer
Comments: With our new contract coming up, I would like to see paid parking negotiated in the contract. Some members are paying $65-$100 a week to park downtown. This fee is an added expense coming out of the Fitters pocket that the Contractor could or sometimes does add into the price of the job. Other Building Trades Unions are receiving this compensation now, so wouldn't it be right for the Fitters also?

*******************************************************************************
Subject: Website Problem
From:    Bill Erffmeyer
Comments: If you have tried to post lately and it wasn't, I'm sorry for that. There is a problem with the host company that I use. They changed something around in their software and it doesn't kick the post back to me. The feedback page doesn't work either. Hopefully I will be able to solve this before to long. If you want to post you can by emailing me an I can enter it by hand just as I'm doing now.

*******************************************************************************
Subject: Posts
From:    Bill Erffmeyer: 
Comments: The posts are working again. After much trial and error I finally resolved the problem.

*******************************************************************************
Category: Web site
Name: concerned
Address:
Telephone:
Email:
Date: 30 Jan 2008
Time: 17:27:02
Comments: In the new edition of the 597 news mag (pg 22 ) It is stated that 597 "strongly suggests" service technicians do NOT sign contracts stating that as a service tech, you may not talk to any customers you may have served for up to one year after you have left that companies employ . Fact is Emcor, the new corporate giant in the Midwest 2 years ago Emcor purchased and bungled its deal with Hayes mechanical . Leaving Hayes free and clear with a lot of Emcors money. Now recently Emcor targeted and purchased Midwesco services is telling these seasoned mechanics that they must sign this "no compete" contract as a term of continued employment. In other words.. Sign this or your fired! What say you 597 union management? DO THESE GUYS NEED TO BE FIRED BEFORE YOU HAVE THE STONES TO CONFRONT EMCOR?

*******************************************************************************
Subject:
From:    concerned too
Comments: Don't expect the UA or any local to represent the service fitters like they do fitters/welders.
   If a construction fitter/welder was asked to sign something the hall would be all over the company and it would be a strike issue.
   Just get used to it, UA service guys have to learn to take care of themselves because the hall and UA just don't care.  Service = Second Class, unless your related to the BM or a BA.  There's a two tier system of representation for service and construction, just the way is.
   EMCOR generates a ton of UA man hours a year, do you think a union rep wants to tell them what they can and can't do? 
   To sign or not to sign should not be up to each service guy, it's not fair to the guy.  The union should just tell EMCOR our people don't sign anything, keeping all of the service guys in the clear, including the company "ball suckers" that don't have a problem signing anything in order to keep their jobs.
   The national UA service rep should probably address this issue at a national level with EMCOR due to their multiple branches country wide, but he's probably more worried about working his next corporate "special deal" and protecting his cushy UA job.

*******************************************************************************
Subject: Tax relief checks
From:    Bill Erffmeyer:
Comments: IRS TAX RELIEF CHECKS DATES 
THE DATES FOR RECEIVING OUR TAX RELIEF CHECKS.  
IT IS SCHEDULED BY THE LAST 2 NUMBERS OF YOUR
SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER.  
IF YOU FILED A JOINT RETURN IT WILL BE UNDER THE
HUSBANDS SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER
 
JULIE VANN  
OES PUBLIC RELATIONS

The Check is in the mail
Week      Last 2 digits of Your SSN               Receive Your check by Week of
  1           00 - 09                                        July 23
  2           10 - 19                                        July 30
  3           20 - 29                                        Aug. 6
  4           30 - 39                                        Aug. 13
  5           40 - 49                                        Aug. 20
  6           50 - 59                                        Aug. 27
  7           60 - 69                                        Sept. 3
  8           70 - 79                                        Sept. 10
  9           80 - 89                                        Sept. 17
 10          90 - 99                                        Sept. 24
For married Taxpayers who filed a Joint return, the first Social Security Number on the
return determines the mailing date.   Source: Internal Revenue Service

*******************************************************************************
Subject: I love the hall
From:   
Comments: you got to love it I have been trying to get out to mobil for the last year like everyone else. I did the nuke thing for them finished the job to portect our work like the tell me while everyone is taking a layoff and getting sent to mobil.  I get laid off and get told that they stopped taking people.  now I am a welder and a pretty good fitter  but they tell me I just missed out by a week.  now I come to find out talking to some people I know out there that they have a 71 year old retiree out there that went out as a welder.  now how the Hell does that one happen when we have people sitting on the bench?

*******************************************************************************
Subject: Mobil
From: Bill Erffmeyer:
Comments: The Welder that you're talking about isn't 71 but a young 66 and a damn good welder at that. He also was screwed over for years and doesn't have enough points to live on. So your thought is what? Should we just move him aside? Every member that wants to work should be able to work whenever and wherever he can. Don't blame the man for the Locals problems. One day you may have to work into retirement even to put food on the table.

*******************************************************************************
Subject: Road Trash
From:    Herkimer Jones
Comments: How many travelers are working here while our own members are sitting at home?

*******************************************************************************
Subject: Travelers Working While Local People Loaf!
From:    My Point of View
Comments: Herkimer:  These "travellers" you speak of are UA members, also.  They are fellow brother and sisters who deserve to be treated justly and fairly.  Apparently, you feel the administration should illegally force them off of the jobsites to make room for a local members.  That would be illegal, immoral and just plain wrong!

*******************************************************************************
Subject: Road Trash
From:    Herkimer Jones
Comments: God forbid, the Local takes care of its own members first. "My point of view" must be related to someone down at the Hall to make such a comment. Maybe he can tell everyone what its like to never have missed a day of work. Or at least tell us who to suck up to.

*******************************************************************************
Subject: Road Trash
From:    My Point of View
Comments: Herkimer:  Why get so upset and sarcastic?  I am retired but I still do not want this local union to get into another big lawsuit.  Try to remember that we all belong to the same union, the United Association!  We are all brothers an sisters, no matter which local we are from.  By the way, that's the way any federal judge or the NLRB would rule, also.

*******************************************************************************
Subject: New Contract
From:    Bill Erffmeyer:
Comments: You need to make every effort to attend the Union meeting on April 1st. You won't believe the screwing that is about to go on.

*******************************************************************************
Subject:  Concerns
From:      Will B. Screwed
Date:      29 Mar 2008
Comments:  Hey Bill, I heard that at Tuesday’s meeting they are going to have a vote to approve a MANDATORY investment into a Variable Annuity.  They want to take a dollar from are benefits package and put it into a VA for each of us.  Seeing how the money in our benefits package is supposed to go for health insurance and pension, it looks like the retiree’s are going to get screwed on this deal.
 Why should I put $1 an hour, $40 a week, $2,080 a year into an investment that I don’t want? I checked, the fees on an Annuity are double compared to our 401.  What about our pension? I would rather put it into the pension fund so the retiree’s could benefit from my contributions and maybe get a raise.
 You can’t take money out of an Annuity for 8 years without paying a huge surrender fee.  If your 59 you couldn’t touch the money till 67.  That’s if there is any money left after 3% annual fee.  I would have to make 10% every year just to walk away with 7%.  That’s provided I don’t lose it all in the market.
 I found this article on Forbes website about how unions and annuity companies were banding together to rip off.  What can we do to stop this?  We better get everybody and their brother down there to stop this on Tuesday.  The only person that this program will benefit is the salesman who sells this to us, and the person who gets the kick back.
 Do the math. 8000 members X 2000 hours = 16 million a year.  Times that by the salesman’s commission @ 7 % = 1.1 million a year in commissions. 
 Someone is going to retire off this and it’s not going to be us.  Check out this article in Forbes and pass it around http://www.forbes.com/business/forbes/2005/0425/100_2.html
 Cut and paste this in your browser and hit go.  Here is excerpt for the lazy or computer challenged.

 ING also pays unions for endorsements and access. It runs a program for the American Federation of Teachers but pays that union only enough to cover related expenses. In a separate deal, ING pays the Oregon Education Association only $144,000 annually for an exclusive endorsement of its "tax-sheltered annuity" and the right to run "financial planning" seminars for members.
 ING's biggest deal likely is with the New York State United Teachers Benefit Trust, which spans 500,000 people and has $2.3 billion in assets, most of it in annuities. The prospectus states ING will pay the union trust $6 for each of its members, or $3 million in 2005; never mind those 140,000 members are barred from the plan and must choose a rival plan from the affiliated United Federation of Teachers in New York. Still, "We got a pretty good deal with ING," says union spokesman Dennis Tompkins.
For union members the deal includes variable annuity expenses as high as 3.56% and cancellation charges of up to 7% of assets. A teacher who puts in $10,000 for a decade and earns 5% annually will forfeit at least $3,976, or 63% of his returns, in fees. The union's 300 staff people save through a separate, cheaper 401(k) run by Fidelity.
 Mutual back-scratching between insurers and unions is ubiquitous with 403(b)s, says Daniel Puplava, who sold the NEA's Valuebuilder in California when it was run by Nationwide. "When I did work at the union, I had to pay for tables, provide door prizes and dine labor people to market in their territory," he says. "I felt like a whore." These days he runs a 403(b) plan he devised for San Diego County's Office of Education. It charges a reasonable 0.3% administrative fee on top of fund fees and has no surrender charges or loads.

*******************************************************************************
Subject:
From:   
Comments: Bill, I know how this game works. If everyone shows a majority "HANDS DOWN", this will still be passed, because they want it. I believe an actual written vote, audited by a third party, would be more prudent. Thanks for the Heads UP. Due to my disabilities, I would not be able to attend. You've got my vote to decline this crazy idea.
Thank you,

*******************************************************************************
Subject:
From:   
Comments: Bill, On another note, regarding retirement. In accordance to our Retirement guidelines. A Member must apply for Medicare Part A&B at age 65. The retired Members born between 1943 - 1954 will be unable to collect full Social Security Benefits until age 66. Yes, I know, you can retire at age 62. Just consider the ramifications of that decision. Your benefits will be reduced by 25% at 62, 6 2/3% at 65. With the new Medicare rules, you will no longer pay a flat rate for Medicare Part B. The new rule is being based on your total income. This will place another monetary burden on the retired, unless things do not get better for the retirees.
Also, I recall an article in the 597 News, regarding our 401k plan. The article was an attempt to discourage Members not to remove their 401k and re-invest with other investment firms. The article went into great length's as to how the private sector, will rip off new investors. Due to the guidelines of our 401k plan a retiree can not make contributions into the plan. Maybe if they changed the policy and allowed any Member, Active or Retired to make contributions, retirees would not be seeking other options, to increase their investments. I assume the investment firms in the private sector is becoming more wealthy and the investors are all getting screwed and are just loving it, but our Retirement options are performing at a better rate. I don't consider a R.O.I. of 3% overwhelming. Any person can do the research on our investments and will find, huge losses, which I had to move everything into the Guaranteed Fund, so I could stop the bleeding.
Sincerely,

*******************************************************************************
Subject: Annuity
From:   
Comments: If some way we get this Annuity shoved down our throat's.  We can file a complaint with FINRA online and they will take up the issue for us.  You may file a complaint without disclosing your identity, or you may leave your information if they have follow up questions for you.  Either way they will be respectful of your privacy. 

  https://apps.finra.org/Investor_Information/Complaints/complaintCenter.asp

Simply fill out the form noting that you did not have enough time to do research on this product and that you do not approve of it's use as a mandatory investment.  They take matters like this very seriously and will make somebody explain why with a Defined Benefit Program and a 401K that another program would be beneficial.

Our retiree's deserve to have as much money as possible going into our pension.  They did it for those before them, now we must do it for them. It won't take a lot to get this stopped but the more the better.  Otherwise kiss $160.00 a month goodbye. By the way, the meeting has been moved up to 7:00pm, don't miss it.

*******************************************************************************
Subject: GOT WORK
From:    Bill Erffmeyer:
Comments: Looking for a job try the city's website. Funny thing though, the Hall never mentions this at the meetings or in the 597 News. Copy the link and see for yourself. http://www.cityofchicago.org/city/webportal/portalContentItemAction.do?contentOID=536961615&contenTypeName=COC_EDITORIAL&topChannelName=Dept&blockName=Human+Resources%2FApply+Online%2FI+Want+To&context=dept&channelId=0&programId=0&entityName=Human+Resources&deptMainCategoryOID=-536891504   You will need to click Open Job Opportunities, then type in Steamfitter under "keywords"

STEAMFITTER
Job Number: 135134
Description
JOB ANNOUNCEMENT
Department of Water Management:
Number of Positions: 3
Reads blueprints, specifications and work orders to assess work required and to determine the proper installation and repair methods to use; removes damaged, defective or obsolete pipes and pipe systems; ensures adequate supplies of tools, equipment and materials are at work sites to complete jobs; uses tools to measure, cut, bend and thread lengths of pipe and to install and repair pipe systems; installs, repairs and maintains boilers, radiators, compressors and pumps for steam, hot water and heating systems; repairs, installs and adjusts thermostats and pneumatic and hydraulic controls to ensure proper functioning; inspects and tests installed systems and equipment to ensure proper working order, detect and plug leakages and to ensure compliance with safety and municipal standards; cleans and replaces worn safety valves, air vents, steam traps, pressure gauges, gaskets, filters and fittings; operates specialized equipment and tools including cutters, hacksaws, torches and threaders to cut and thread pipes to specification; prepares work activity reports.
Location:    Bureau of Water Supply, Pumping Section
Address:     Various
Days Off:    Saturday and Sunday
Shift:          Days
Hours:        7:00 A.M. to 3:30 P.M.
Qualifications
Certification as a Universal Technician required by 40CFR part 82 subpart F of the EPA and successful completion of a US Department of Labor registered steam fitting apprenticeship training program and journeyman status, or an equivalent combination of training and experience.
NOTE:  You must be certified as a Universal Technician required by 40CFR part 82 subpart F of the EPA at the time of application.
NOTE:  A copy of your resume is required at the time of application.  A copy of your valid Universal Technician certificate required by 40CFR part 82 subpart F of the EPA will be required at the time of selection. Copies of your apprenticeship training certificate(s) or official transcripts will be required at the time of selection, if applicable.
Evaluation: Your initial evaluation will be based on information provided on the application form and documents submitted with the application.  Applications must be submitted by the individual applicant.  No second party applicants will be accepted.
Residency Requirement:  An employee must be an actual resident of the City of Chicago.  Proof of residency will be required at the time of employment.
If you are disabled and require a reasonable accommodation to file your application, please contact the City of Chicago, Department of Human Resources at 312-744-4976, TTY: 312-744-5035.  You will be required to provide information regarding your request.
ALL REFERENCES TO POLITICAL SPONSORSHIP OR RECOMMENDATION MUST BE OMITTED FROM ANY AND ALL APPLICATION MATERIALS SUBMITTED FOR CITY EMPLOYMENT.
City of Chicago is an Equal Opportunity/Affirmative Action Employer
City of Chicago                                                            Department of Human Resources
Richard M. Daley, Mayor                                                Michelle Y. Burton, Acting Commissioner
Posting Date
: Job Posting: 2008-Apr-18 |
Closing Date (Period for Applying) - External
: 2008-May-01
Bargaining Unit: 14 | Starting Pay Rate: 40.00

*******************************************************************************
Subject: Here's another one.
From:    Bill Erffmeyer:
Comments: Try this one also...Copy the link and see for yourself. http://www.cityofchicago.org/city/webportal/portalContentItemAction.do?contentOID=536961615&contenTypeName=COC_EDITORIAL&topChannelName=Dept&blockName=Human+Resources%2FApply+Online%2FI+Want+To&context=dept&channelId=0&programId=0&entityName=Human+Resources&deptMainCategoryOID=-536891504   You will need to click Open Job Opportunities, then type in Steamfitter under "keywords" 

STEAMFITTER
Job Number:
135034
Description
Title Code Number: 4774
JOB ANNOUNCEMENT
Department of Aviation
Number of Positions: 1
Duties:  Under general supervision, reads blueprints, specifications, and work orders to assess work required and to determine the proper installation and repair methods to use.  Removes damaged, defective, or obsolete pipes and pipe systems.  Ensures adequate supplies of tools, equipment, and materials are at work sites to complete jobs.  Uses tools to measure, cut, bend, and thread lengths of pipe to install and repair pipe systems.  Installs, repairs, and maintains boilers, radiators, compressors, and pumps for steam, hot water, and heating systems. Repairs, installs, and adjusts thermostats as well as adjusts pneumatic and hydraulic controls to ensure proper functioning.  Inspects and tests installed systems and equipment to ensure proper working order, detect and plug leakages, and to ensure compliance with safety and municipal standards.  Cleans and replaces worn safety valves, air vents, steam traps, pressure gauges, gaskets, filters, and fittings.  Operates specialized equipment and tools including cutter, backsaws, torches, and threaders to cut and thread pipes to specification. Prepares work activity reports.  Performs related duties as required.
Qualifications
Certification as a Universal technician required by 40CFR part 82 subpart F of the EPA and successful completion of a US Department of Labor registered steam fitting apprenticeship training program and journeyman status, or an equivalent combination of training and experience. 
NOTE: You must be certified as a Universal technician required by 40CFR part 82 subpart F of the EPA at the time of application.
NOTE:  A copy of your resume is required at the time of application. A copy of a valid Universal technician required by 40CFR part 82 subpart F of the EPA will be required at the time of selection. Copies of your apprenticeship training certificate(s) or official transcripts will be required at the time of selection, if applicable.
Evaluation: Your initial evaluation will be based on information provided on the application form and documents submitted with the application. Applications must be submitted by the individual applicant.  No second party applications will be accepted.
Residency Requirement: An employee must be an actual resident of the City of Chicago. Proof of residency will be required at the time of employment.
IF YOU ARE A PERSON WITH A DISABILITY AND REQUIRE A REASONABLE ACCOMMODATION IN ORDER TO PARTICIPATE IN THE APPLICATION PROCESS, PLEASE CONTACT THE CITY OF CHICAGO, DEPARTMENT OF HUMAN RESOURCES AT 312-744-4976 (VOICE) OR 312-744-5035 (TTY). YOU MAY BE REQUIRED TO PROVIDE INFORMATION TO SUPPORT YOUR REASONABLE ACCOMMODATION REQUEST.
ALL REFERENCES TO POLITICAL SPONSORSHIP OR RECOMMENDATION MUST BE OMITTED FROM ANY AND ALL APPLICATION MATERIALS SUBMITTED FOR CITY EMPLOYMENT.
City of Chicago is an Equal Opportunity/Affirmative Action Employer
City of Chicago                                                                                 Department of Human Resources                                                       
Richard M. Daley, Mayor                                                                     Michelle Y. Burton, Acting Commissioner             
Posting Date
: Job Posting: 2008-Apr-14 |
Closing Date (Period for Applying) - External
: 2008-May-12
Bargaining Unit: 14 | Starting Pay Rate: $40.00

*******************************************************************************
Subject: 597  Takes All
From:   
Comments: If you have a stroke, have surgery and develope an infection while in the hospital in a coma the FUND will cut-off your benefits unless you sign your rights over to them and their attorneys giving them the rights to any third party lawsuit to settle on your behalf for the dollar amount they deem.  You give them all or they take all your benefits, including dependents benefits!  That so called subrogation form,  read it, re-read it have your attorney read it. When your loved one is helpless and suffering the fund will be mailing and calling you to sign the subrogation form and they will tell you it is a standard subrogation. Standard for 597 maybe. The suffering member, has a case manager assigned without permission from the member, the case manager calls and tries to convince you they are working to benefit you when they are hired by the fund to save the fund money everyway they can cutting the cost of your medical care any and every way they can regardless of how it effects you the member.  The case manager works diligintly calling the hospital usually every 12 to 24 hours for updates on your condition, care, tests, etc. then the case manager stays in constant contact with the fund office and all of your care is dictated by 597. You now are an expense, a threat to the mountain of money they sit on. Even if you do not sign the case management agreement they manage you, your health care without your consent.
As long as they think you might die they are not too concerned but if you survive and you are going to have long term disability that is going to eat up your little lifetime max on insurance beware, you have no friends at the fund.  Properly named welfare fund, it's not much better than being on welfare!

Last changed: 05/06/08